Monday, September 04, 2006

FBCH Man-Centered...? NAWWWW!

HYSTERIC FUNDIES AND THEIR FERTILE IMAGINATIONS

Allow us to begin this particular blog entry with an earnest apology for the upcoming link and subsequent video that you are about to view. In no way does it reflect the views of the staff here at B&C. What you are about to see is hyper-cultural-fundie sensationalism at its worst.
_________________________________________________
We recently had the unfortunate privilege to view the promotional video for Youth Conference 2006. We apologize for not finding this sooner--Youth Conference is now over, but this video speaks volumes. I for one cannot remember ever watching something so stomach wrenching. I fondly remember the old "Church With A Heart" video that FBCH made back in the late 80's and all of the aggrandizement found there--I have to admit that this current little eight minute video clip exhibits even more arrogance--truly disturbing.



You can find the video here--I recommend that everyone view this realizing that we here at Bread and Circuses did NOT produce this video to bolster the points we have been making the last few months! It is almost too perfect in that it fits everything that has been said concerning the anthropocentric philosophy of ministry put forth in Hammond. As you might suspect there are those who can view this filth and not find anything out of line--this is sad but not surprising when dealing with this group.

If you listen closely you will hear the adoring fans in the background as this was shown at Youth Conference 2006--or was it a rock concert? Not sure judging by the screaming fans as the name "Jack Hyles" was announced!

Here is a brief view of the characters found in the video--notice the relevance of most and the irrelevance of a few:

  • Thomas Jefferson and the Founding Fathers
  • General MacArthur
  • Vietnam Veterans
  • Marines and Navy corpsman raise flag atop Mount Suribachi at Iwo Jima
  • Jack Hyles standing as his church is burned by an arsonist
  • Apollo 11 landing on the moon for the first time in history
  • Miracle on Ice as USA Olympians defeat Russians in 1980 Winter Games
  • John F. Kennedy and his opposition of communism
  • Ronald Reagan and his opposition of communism and the fall of the Berlin Wall
  • Students in Tiananmen Square standing against the tanks of Red China
  • George Bush after 9-11 at Ground Zero promising retribution
  • Thousands voting in Baghdad for the first time after the fall of the Hussein regime
  • Thousands of Christians giving their lives as martyrs from AD 33 to AD 2006
  • CH Spurgeon
  • DL Moody
  • J Frank Norris
  • Billy Sunday
  • John R Rice
  • Lee Roberson
  • Jack Hyles
  • Jack Schaap
The connection between these events and First Baptist of Hammond is ludicrous. Nothing more than the exaltation of man and the emotional manipulation of young people in promotion of decisionism.

Phineas
&
Joshua

38 comments:

Josh said...

2 Timothy 3
1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,


Did you also notice at the top of the page? Over 10,000 in attendance. No one cares what happened to the 10,000--it just matters that they were there. I wonder if hell boasts of its attendance as well? What a disgrace to the cause of Christ.

Josh

Roda said...

That was scary. I have only been to FBCH twice in my life. The last time I heard Jack Hyles preach I got up and walked out after enduring several racist jokes. It's so sad that so many people cannot see how wrong it all is. I'm curious about Jon Jenkins. What does anyone know about him?

BeckyJoie said...

That was a disturbing video feed. I'm not calling HAC or FBCH "Commies and Nazis". The producers of the video are, however, using the same psycho-emotional warfare type methodology: sensationalism, drum- warfare type music in the background to emphasize the words, repetitive use of seemingly insignificant phrases but phrases which have a hidden agenda to exalt Hyles and his glazed eyed stand-ins, messages of truth mixed with propoganda and outright lies.
Lie #1: Jack Hyles was the leader of fundamentalism. Lie #2 Brother Hyles standing up to an arsenist was as significant as man landing on the moon and the martyrdom of Christians in Tienamen Square, 9/11 terrorism and George Bush's stand against it, victims in Foxes Book of Martyrs, etc.

Lie #3: Hyles brought us fundamentalism and Lie #4:he was the leader of it for 50 years.

I don't know what is more disturbing: the boasting of Hyles and Schaap, or the cheering of the crowds. There are alot of undertones. It's almost like they copied old wartime news videos of Hilter only replacing him with Hyles. He even raises his right arm like a salute or cheer to his own efforts or practices of "taking the buskids". I have a hard time believing that it is an unintentional likeness. I would not be surprised at all if they were subconscious messages.
Hitler made himself a hero to the youth and many others as well. At least,speculation would say that Hyles paid some attention to how Hitler rallied crowds. The response is almost identical. It's very sickening. Unfortunately, Bro Schaap is doing the same thing and readily admits he is following in the footsteps of his father in law. "The same old stuff-just more of it" he boasts.

I feel bad for Schaap and other leaders/members there. To a certain extent they have been brainwashed. But at some point, each must examine their own walk and determine if it lines up with Scripture or man's ideals. Hyles readily admitted to using brainwashing techniques. I can still hear him saying "People need their brains washed." (I agree that we all need to be washed from sin but brainwashing is not the answer. We all need heart washing.)

Josh said...

Becky, your comments about WWII Nazi propaganda are interesting. I had not noticed the similarities and it is hard to believe they are unintentional. Benign in motive, perhaps, but not unintentional.

PT Barnum said...

before anyone interpolates on Becky's comment I want to interject--no one is saying that FBCH is like Nazi Germany or that Jack Schaap is just like Hitler. I did not take that from the comments, but I know how some will read it.

I did not think about that mentality specifically--I do know that the emotion of the historic moments "helps" in the kind of decisions that FBCH longs for. The revisionist history of "fundamentalism as we know it" is what jumps out at me as well as the anthropocentric thrust of the entire production.

I cannot stand blameless--I once fell for all of this garbage and believe there are hundreds of good people at FBCH that are just programmed to accept this stuff. I also know that there are many at FBCH who are beginning to see the problems with the man-centered philosophy of ministry and are troubled by it. My prayer is that they will seek the LORD's guidance and throw everything they hear at FBCH up against the Word of God and reject anything that does not stick.

Matthew

Bob Bixby said...

I grew up among Jack Hyles fans (and was one myself as a kid). I have to admit I was a bit taken aback by the timing of Jack Hyles picture immediately following the words "God-man."

Clearly, they were talking about Jesus Christ as the God-man, but the juxtapositioning of Hyles' picture immediately after the statement, "This ministry was not built upon a man, but upon the God-man." [Immediate next picture: "Brother" Hyles.]

Having grown up among these people, I don't think anyone believes he was the God-man, but I do believe that the timing was deliberate. If anyone could have been mistaken for Jesus, it certainly would be Jack Hyles. That's what many of them believe.

Gordy said...

Truly sad. That God-man reference certainly was intentional - no doubts about it. Man-worship at its best - or should that be worst?

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1 Corinthians 3:1-5

Fred Butler said...

I did get some goose bumps, but the snare drum got annoying real quick.

I am just curious if they know that Douglass MacArthur is a 5th cousin to John MacArthur, in which case, we should seperate from this youth conference and have nothing to do with it.

Fred

BeckyJoie said...

Yes, I found the "God-man" reference timely as well.
Too, thank you for clarifying my comment. You are right, I'm not saying they are Nazis or that they believe what the Nazi's did, just that their leadership methodologies and efforts of persuasion are similar in some ways. In no way do I want to say that the people in leadership at FBCH or HAC are comparable in belief or deeds to the Nazis.
I do believe that the cause and effect of their own practices and beliefs have some things in common with the methodologies of psychological military strategies, spiritual movements and cults. The things in common include: hero worship of a leader,blatant and subtle propoganda, heavy handed persuasion, threats, intimidation, pointed but unfounded accusations of dissenters, limiting of outside sources of information to followers, bribes via special priviledges,titles and or power for the "faithful" inner circle of followers, dogma repeated frequently and parroted by others as a brainwashing technique, and more. Otherwise, why does every person who tries to come in here to debate us, say the exact same words over and over and over like they know nothing else to say? Why don't they have their own theories or even knowledge of other methodologies. Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom, God given creativity flows and there is love, joy....not anger, accusations, hatred, argumentative spirits, etc. Why do they get so defensive without taking the time to gather facts and check things out. They are driven by emotion, parroted plattitidues, traditions instead of sound doctrine, well researched theories and biblical foundations. Elsewise they would have more to say than the trite phrases they chant.

PT Barnum said...

I personally do not believe the "god-man" reference was meant for Pastor Hyles. First of all they are always up against deadlines as one of the great circus days approaches. No doubt they were pulling all-nighters trying to put this video together before the big day! Also we need to keep in mind that they are not the most computer savvy folks around--I believe it was just sloppy and shoddy work. I would classify this as more of a Freudian slip of sorts than a deliberate declaration of Jack Hyles as the "god-man".

I used to work for a landscaping company while I was in high school at Hyles High--a deacon from FBCH worked with me there and would dot your eye if you insulted our preacher, Jack Hyles. On numerous occasions the name of Christ was besmirched and taken in vain--never was there any reaction to defend His precious Name. Many in Hammond have worn and still do wear a "100% for Hyles" button--maybe not on their lapel, but on their heart of hearts.

One of the biggest days of the year at Hyles High is when they celebrate his birthday sometime in September. They basically take the day off of school and learn more about Hyles and his life. Teachers spend the day telling stories about their interaction with Hyles and also tales from the life of Hyles. I would love to be a fly on the wall to hear some of these stories regaled!

Matthew

Josh said...

Thanks for the clarification, Matthew. I was in no way comparing FBCH to Nazi Germany...I was simply commenting on the propoganda techniques.

PT Barnum said...

I understood the comments but I just wanted to be sure that no body misunderstood what you were saying. You need to know that I used to be a loyal Hylesite to the core--I would fight tooth and nail for that man and his brand of Fundamentalism. I know some of the ways in which they think and rationalize their beliefs.

Typically this kind of a post will be met with defensiveness and malice. I don't think many can defend this piece--it is truly out of line.

Thanks for your comments!

Matthew

reglerjoe said...

I believe the "God-man" piece was an innocent yet terribly timed bit of editing.

Nevertheless, the video started off well, but ended up super cheasy.

I get the whole "be resolved" theme for teens...actually, if they focused more on that, and kept it coherent and connected it could've been really good...but how did they end up with the whole commercial for Schaap Inc.?

If I was an attending pastor who had brought his youth group, I would've been totally offended. I would want my teenagers to go to a conference to grow in love with Christ, not to grow in love with FBCH/HAC.

Aside from an obligatory mention of the "God-man", the video was man glorifying.

No thanks.

Edward said...

You folks never cease to amaze me. Over 10,000 teens came to Hammond to hear good preaching! Many surrendered to the mission field and full time service! Why can't you get excited about it? Why does evertyhing have to be analyzed to death? I was not thrilled by the God-Man timing but you all know that nobody believes Dr Hyles is God. This site has no purpose other than to destroy what godly men built for decades. I cannot wait until the Richard boys become disgruntled at their current churches...they will go on the attack and start another blog to tell everyone how satanic BJU and IFBF churches are! A critic is a critic is a critic will always be a miserable critic.

I am getting to the point when I will not be checking back at this blog...I truly feel for your families and the familes of both of your wifes...they are solid FBC people who serve the LORD in our ministry. I will always wonder where they went wrong to cause such hatred.

Let me go on record as saying that FBC is not advocating Hyles worship...they never have and never will. Dr Hyles and Dr Schaap only seek to point as many to the Saviour as possible! Have at me now...I will be back to view the damages. Ed

BeckyJoie said...

Ed, I differ with you in that I have SEEN, with my own eyes, the women at the college literally worship Hyles, fighting with each other just to get near him. I think standing on the pews on your tiptoes, cheering, chanting, screaming " We love you, Brother Hyles", singing to him and getting frenzied while he stood behind a closed door in the chapel auditorium. This in my mind and by any definition would classify as Hyles worship. I will say though it is not much worse than those who go to a rock concert or a worship christian band leaders, often also for all the wrong reasons. People are drawn to fame. People will do anything for a famous person. Nonetheless, it is misplaced worship. People from FBCH would blackball any non-FBCH person who merely claps their hands or closes their eyes in worship to God during a hymn or chorus, and call them a pentecostal nut. Why do they allow exuberant treatment of Hyles and disallow any kind of mild expression of worship to Jesus? In 1989, at a "Revival Conference" hosted by a Hyles Graduate church, I heard and saw the HAC singing ensemble stand face to face with Hyles in front of a congregation at the outdoor meeting do this: substitute Bro. Hyles name in the song, "Oh, How I love Jesus" making it "Oh, how I love Bro. Hyles"? Are you saying that is not worship? They were not discouraged by Hyles or anyone from doing this. In fact, many people in the church cheered and sang with them. Hyles never made mention to them not to do this but smiled and took it all in with pleasure and a touch of nervousness. He apparently knew it was wrong but never said a word. That was the last straw for me, Ed. I never went back to his meetings at that church or any other.

I am very happy if people come to the Lord or surrender to full time ministry, but it still does not negate the wrongness of exaltation of a man to the degree to which they lift him up.

You can say that in your opinion, you've never seen the hero worship, but to say that they've never allowed it, well that is not possible for you to say if you have not been there from the very beginning. More than likely, it is a matter of opinion or intentional blindness to it that causes you to say such a thing. I am not there now, so I can't speak for how it is now in person, but what I see on the web, and from what they mail out to people, it sure looks like the same hero worship I saw then. Only they add an invisible shrine for Bro. Schaap who is Hyles Jr. so to speak.
I don't think it is wrong to have heroes. Hebrews Hall of Faith is full of heroes. What I am saying is that there should not be so much emphasis on the heroes. More emphasis should be on the Living and written Word than the humans who claim to handle it. What is the point of having a whole video and mentioning only the PEOPLE who have done "great" things? Why not show the martyrs and revolutionaries and then end with a fantastic clip of the crucifixion or a re-enactment of the resurrection to show what spurred the people on? Love for and faith in Jesus should be what spurs people on, rather than worship of a man.

reglerjoe said...

Ed,

Go to sharperiron.org. You're YC video is a hot topic of discussion. I think you'll be shocked that a very large majority of fundamentalism is appalled at this video peddled to the teens at the Hammond conference. (Could someone more computer savvy than me give Ed a link to the YC video discussion page over at SI?)

I dare you, Ed. See what others are saying about it. Leave you're Hammond bubble for 5 minutes. This blog is not the only place where people are alarmed at that video.

And, BTW, there's a huge difference between criticizing and correcting error.

Unfortunately, you have been programmed to think that anyone who corrects Hammond error is a critic.

How sad.

How truly sad.

Gordy said...

Ed, my pastor is a HAC grad (1985 I believe) and he has multiple photos of Bro. Hyles in his office. My pastor holds Bro. Hyles in high regard. He was at the youth conference. He said outside maybe 2 sermons, he did not hear any good preaching. He said most of it consisted of personal stories. I was shocked to hear him say he didn't care for it. Those teens did NOT hear good preaching. They may have seen good performances, but not good preaching.

As for me, I'd rather let the Lord do the performing:
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 1:6

Here's the link to the discussion at Sharper Iron:
http://www.sharperiron.org/showthread.php?t=3232

PT Barnum said...

thank you Gordy for the link! All of this talk about Hyles' chair has me digging for a poem I happened on to a couple years ago. stay tuned...

Matthew

Steve Minton said...

Reglerjoe, Ed's problem is that he CAN'T leave that bubble, even for 5 minutes. If he did, he wouldn't be Ed. He'd be, forgive the pun, a "regular Joe" like you and I and thousands of others that are trying to serve God, sometimes succeeding, sometimes failing, but always getting up and trying again. I know for myself, I'm not a great person, I don't have this important function in my unimportant church, and I try to teach a bunch of regular kids in Sunday School and VBS. That's what I believe God has called me to do. But Ed, on the other hand, probably needs to feel important, so he latches himself to FBC, thinking it to be "the Greatest Church since Pentecost". If he didn't have that church, he'd be a regular nobody, like you and me. He can't live in mediocrity, so he rides on the coattails of FBC for the ride.

As far as the video goes, all I can say is SHAMEFUL. The insinuations, whether intentional or not, are sickening. But right on par for First Baptist. And to think that the church actually expects the public-at-large to take them seriously. Give me a break. FBC never disappoints me in anything they do; they're so predictable, because this kind of stuff has been going on for 30+ years. Seen it all, but they never cease to amaze me.

rabbi-philosopher said...

Ed, please continue to come back - really. You're the only input I ever see for the Hyles/Anderson side. I'm not sure I'd know what they think if you didn't post. Reading your posts can be revalatory. jb

PT Barnum said...

rabbi,

according to my trusty sitemeter there are others who attend FBCH who lurk but do not defend. I am encouraged by the lurking but would enjoy some more interaction. I won't hold my breath.

Matthew

Fundamentally Reformed said...

As far as the "God-man" reference followed by the shot of Hyles, I agree with others who think it was intentional. I have heard a song or two that was made where worship is actually being directed to Hyles. The song was written in memory of him, but the way he is mentioned is way beyond the bounds of normalcy. There is definitely an unhealthy exaltation of Jack Hyles going on. I think there is a flirtation with a "worshipping" of him which goes on in those circles. It is extremely troubling.

Thanks for pointing out the video. It should help some to wake up to the stark realities of the Hammond regime.

Gordy said...

I downloaded the few sermons they have posted from this past conference. I've listened to the first one. It was 48 minutes long and it was 17 minutes into it before a single Bible verse was read. 17 minutes! I'm all for introductions, but 17 minutes ?!?! If you take out the "pep-rally" parts & the introduction, the message could probably have been boiled down to 10-15 minutes.

Gordy said...

Listened to the second one. At least he got to the Bible after 8 minutes. But outside of that and one other time of being in the Bible, the rest of the 44 minute sermon was personal stories.

I seem to recall a verse somewhere that says "preach the word!"

Gordy said...

The third one started out good - got right into the Bible and stayed there for a while. He did get on the women in pants issue. 34 minutes into it, he said he was done and then went on with a 17 minute story :-)

So of the 3 sermons they have available for download, the teens got very little Bible preaching.

Anonymous said...

Greetings. I have just found this site and found it to be reaffirming to my increasing uncertainty about my own church. I hope this doesn't move off topic too much but I would like to get your thoughts. Fellowship Baptist Church in Durham, NC is set-up to be a mirror image of First Baptist in Hammond. Our preacher Dr. Rick Finley (HAC grad) is a great follower of Dr. Hyles and our church is very much as what you are describing. The preacher possesses great oratory skill. Admittedly, the church preaches the gospel and has a great number of salvations. However, the mission of the church seems focused on numbers, numbers, numbers. The Christian school seems to exist for two purposes...educate young people in bible doctrine and send them to HAC. In fact, no other college appears seems to be a viable choice in the eyes of the church. Don't get me wrong, we need people in full-time Christian service but that seems to be the only "honorable" option that is pushed onto the young people. Don't we need fundamental Christians in the workplace? Any questions about this doctrine are stongly discouraged and any questions are considering tantamount to treason. I'm just really confused. There is more I would like to discuss but I thought I would let you start here. Thank you.

BuckeyeBaptist said...

I'm one of the lurkers, but not necessarily a defender.

I attend what you would probably describe as a IFBx church pastored, interestingly enough, by a HAC alum. I used to wonder why he did not talk about Jack Hyles much (actually I don't think ever), but maybe I have my answer.

As a distant observer I find it fascinating. I would have thought that he passed on just recently, but I see that it's been over 5 years. To keep putting him out front like they do in that video is spooky. Almost like keeping Lenin's body laying around for decades.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,

I am very familiar with Fellowship Baptist in Durham. I would like to chat with you, but I need some sort of way to e-mail you.

We probably know each other. I don't want to turn this YC video thread into a Fellowhship thread, so please just e-mail me.

60K said...

Anonymous,

I am familiar with Fellowship Baptist in Durham. I would like to chat with you but need some way to e-mail you.

We probably know each other. I don't want to turn this YC video discussion into a Fellowhship discussion, so please just e-mail me.

Anonymous said...

60k...what's your email?

60K said...

I'm trying to get my profile straight so that you can click on my I.D. - still learning this stuff.

My e-mail is sixtykperyear@yahoo.com

PT Barnum said...

I feel like Chuck Woolery of Love Connection fame! BTW, true story--my mother in law dated Chuck back in the day--he was supposedly a believer.

Glad to see that we are helping even those not attending church in Hammond. I hope you will continue to lurk and post when the LORD leads.

Matthew

Josh said...

What happened to the latest post? Was it my comment that got it pulled? :)

Joshua R said...

Anonymous,
I hope that there is a good, Christ-honoring, fundamental church in your area that is free from IFBx or Hylesite influence. I don't doubt the sincerity of your pastor or others in your church but if the Lord leads you to move on He will undoubtedly dispense the grace that will be necessary to do so. By accessing our profiles, both Matt and myself can be reached via email. Feel free to do so and may the Lord bless you abundantly.

Josh R

Kenneth said...

Last year I attended Jon Jenkins college in Gaylord MI. This ministry is a clone of the Hylesites, everything from the church, college and the youth confrences all have a striking similarity to FBCH. I liked the college and church but their were aspects to difficult to ignore. the idolity of KJB worship, the exaltation of Jack Hyles and the obsessen over numbers. I could not allow my mind to be polluted with this philosophy. Jon Jenkins teen spectacular youth conferences reflect the same man centered worship as the FBCH conferences. I am now attending Northland Baptist Bible College, I thank God I am not brainwashed lake so many others.

In His name,
Kenneth W Southwell

PT Barnum said...

kenneth,

Praise the LORD for His direction in your life! I have a friend that I grew up with at FBCH who I believe works for Pastor Jenkins--his name is Chad Vest. I believe that the ministry their has many good and sincere folks who just swallow the hook of man-centered ministry.

I have heard from some folks that the ministry in Gaylord is not quite as extreme as Hammond--I have never seen it so I do not know whether these things are true. I do believe that any ministry that is KJVO should be marked and avoided--I have seen too many well-meaning Christians deceived by these type of ministries.

Thanks for coming by the big top! We hope you will check in from time to time and add your thoughts on IFBXers and their exaltation of anthropocentric ministries. God bless you as you train for ministry at Northland Baptist Bible College!

Matthew

Kenneth said...

You are right on track. Pastor Jenkins ministry is not quite as extreme as Hammond but I believe they have the potential. I know Chad Vest, he is a good man. I once asked him for a book about the KJV issue he referenced me to Riplingers book "New Age Bible Versions", I heard about Riplingers book before and new that it was full of lies. My hart is broken for these good people I wish I could reach out and correct them but I know they will not listen.

My prayer is that God will soften there harts to the truth. Jon Jenkins ministry is rapidly expanding they are planning to build a 1500 person auditorium the largest in northern MI! Could this be another boom in extreme fundamentalism?

One Sunday they sang a song about Pastor Jenkins I was shocked! After that service I felt conviction and wanted to leave but I decided to finish my last semester.

In His name

Robert said...

Hey, wasn't Spurgeon a 5-point Calvinist? And we KNOW that Calvinism destroys soul-winning!