Thursday, November 30, 2006

Pillsbury Baptist Bible College Defended


Recently we made a post regarding a chapel sermon Pastor Jack Schaap preached in September of 2006 at Hyles-Anderson College. We touched on some troubling things that Pastor Schaap said about Pillsbury Baptist Bible College where he attended before transferring to HAC in the late 70's. Pastor Schaap has also included some of this story in his book entitled, "A Fresh Anointing" on pages 17-30. Sharper Iron picked up on this sermon as well and has an interesting thread in regards to its veracity here.

I had also mentioned that there were some people who actually attended PBBC when these events supposedly transpired. A couple of these men have added their comments to the above thread and you can check them out here, here, and here. Kevin Bauder who is President of Central Baptist Theological Seminary also addressed this particular sermon by Pastor Schaap in his most recent article which you can read here.

It is obvious that Pastor Schaap's predecessor used personal illustrations quite skillfully--most of them were unverifiable and therefore often accepted as true. It seems that Pastor Schaap has used a really exciting personal story that appears to be very easily disputed by those who were present at PBBC 30 years ago. Nowadays preachers who like to tell stories ought to consider that the internet makes verification or disputation of said whoppers very simple.

Is this just a case of different perspectives of the same event? Is it possible that this legend has grown simply because it happened 30 years ago? Is it likewise feasible that Pastor Schaap has embellished and lied only to make Hyles-Anderson appear to be a more superior college than PBBC?

As badly as I would like to comment in more detail here I will wait until some of you have a crack at it after reading the above refutations.

Ephesians 4:25 NKJB "Therefore, putting away lying, 'Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,' for we are members of one another."

PT Barnum

43 comments:

Fundamentally Reformed said...

Thanks Matt for posting this. It is great to know that in today's e-age, such preposterous stories are able to be researched and debunked.

It is nice to know that there is a widespread buzz about his exaggerations. I hope that soem within the empire will see daylight from some of the protestations of his inaccuracies. And perhaps Dr Jack will actually change and try to stick to the truth.

God bless,

Bob Hayton

Anonymous said...

I am a graduate of PBBC and interested in the issue of this article. Is this sermon of "Schaap's struggle" accessible on the web? I'd love to see what he says. I attended 1985-93.

Mike Y said...

Great post. This habit of embellishing stories has been a prevalent for a while. I always enjoyed hearing the "personal" accounts of people who tragically died because they either left their IFBx church or went against the "man of God". Yet each account sound nearly identical to that of other pastors relating their own personal accounts with this.

During a more "enthusiastic" time in my life, I was taking classes at Golden State Baptist Institute before it became a college. I actually got marked down in my hermeneutics class because I did not tell elaborate enough stories.

PT Barnum said...

anonymous,

Thanks for stopping by the big top and adding your thoughts! You can find a link to the sermon in question below:

http://fbchbreadandcircuses.blogspot.com/2006/10/more-tall-tales-from-hac.html

Come back and see us again!

PT Barnum

Anonymous said...

May Be of interest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Schaap

Anonymous said...

I am not surprised at all by the picture you two chose for this article. If I were a betting man I would say that this is one of your favorite movies. Whenever someone leaves their roots and rejects what they know is right they are often known to allow there standards to slip. I believe even this choice is very telling.

As far as the story goes that Pastor Schaap used in this sermon, I don't believe that either of you are in a position to know what is truth and what may not be. I personally believe the story he tells simply because I have known him for years and never known him to lie. Now someone may be able to dispute some minor details but I do not believe anything was added or omitted on purpose. 30 years is a long time and I know that I would be lucky to remember an event like this perfectly.

When you are looking for things to criticize it is easy to nitpick events like this in order to grind your ax. I refuse to suspect and slander anyone that I do not agree with on 100% of the issues.

My prayer is that you would both find joy in Christ. You seem miserable and it shows with every article you write.

anonymous

Mike Hess said...

Anonymous,

I find it odd that you are hiding your real name. I also find it troubling that you are being quite presumptious as to whether or not PT has seen a particular movie or not.

Please tell me something about "slipping standards". Is NOT practicing church discipline slipping your standards? Is not doing anything about your own son living in grotesque sin slipping your standards? Is using college students to build your church by going out and knocking on doors and not doing that yourself (e.g. Hyles and Young) slipping your standards? Is preaching a repentance-free gospel slipping your standards? Is having a "secret" door between you and your secretary a slipping of standards in your book? Is covering up sin a multitude of times slipping your standards? Is equating true conversion with a particular version of the Bible a slipping of standards (e.g. the heresy of KJV onlyism).

I think you get the drift. I think that you will find that it is Schaap himself who slipped in his standards by embelleshing stories to impress the hysterics in Hammond. Isn't it telling that his story has not been confirmed by Pillsbury or others who went to school with him? Does that at the very least trouble you at all?

Mike

Radish said...

I find it interesting that anoymous apparently knows the movie he refers to quite well.
It reminds me of the little girl who told her mother that Johnny had his eyes open during the prayer!

PT Barnum said...

anon,

I have not seen the movie in question--I googled the word "polygraph" and that was one of the first pictures to come up. I do know that they are Stiller and DeNiro--can you imagine if someone like DeNiro was actually a member at FBCH? He would have Pastor Schaap strapped to a lie detector in a heartbeat!

I want to encourage you to come back and visit us here at Bread and Circuses. I would truly like to hear more of your thoughts and figure out what makes you tick.

Funny you should mention about "looking for something to nitpick" because I frankly do not have to look--all of this stuff is from their own material (sermons, books, websites).

Mike H,

You bring up some very interesting points--thinking back to when I was at FBCH none of these things clicked in my mind either. The judgmental and arrogant attitude I had during those years is something I have forsaken--I pray that it never is present in my life again.

Radish,

Very wise are you--sorry my son has been playing Lego Star Wars on the Playstation and he has been talking like Yoda lately--I love your analogy!

PT Barnum

Nathaniel said...

I was hoping for a shred of evidence that what little Jack said had ANY truth. But alas, I waited in vain.

IF he was mocked, spit upon, 200 phone calls the next morning from angry pastors, and eventually driven from the ivied halls of Old Main for his heresy and actions, it is only to say AMEN to Pillsbury and the standards, doctrine and godliness of the people there.

His actions/sermon (as he reported) were such that any good Baptist school should have sent him packing.

A "red badge of courage" for Schaap? No, a shame and blot on the name of Baptist that had morphed from the false doctrine and corruptions of Jack/David Hyles now to his son-in-law.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
PT Barnum said...

We will not stand for comments like the one just removed. We allow anonymous comments in order to help people who are scarred of their "preacher" to be able to express themselves freely. We will not allow personal attacks by anonymous posters or posters who use their real names for that matter. If you have something to add to the topic at hand which is Schaap's tendency to lie from behind the pulpit then go ahead in a Christ-like manner. Believe you me that I will make Ken Christenson look like Pope Benedict the next time this happens! Just kidding--I really would like us to stay on topic here.

PT Barnum

Radish said...

I happened to see the post that you removed, and it seemed to me that anonymous once again betrayed his character. On the one hand he writes, "I refuse to suspect and slander anyone that I do not agree with on 100% of the issues.
My prayer is that you would both find joy in Christ. You seem miserable and it shows with every article you write"
And then on the other hand, he looses a bitter vitirolic stream of venom which seems to me to reveal the very kind of thing you are emphasizing in your post!

Ryan DeBarr said...

I did not even realize that the picture was from a movie.

I guess Mr. Anonymous watches movies.

Radish said...

I wonder if you could answer a question for me.
From time to time I see references on various blogs to Type A, B, or C fundamentalists and Type A, B, or C churches.
Do you know what these types stand for? If so, what type would FBCH or HAC be?

PT Barnum said...

In the JT model they would be considered as type "A+". There has been a great uproar from this from the type "A" guys--they don't want any connection with the likes of Hyles, Gray, Schaap, etc...

I would hesitate to try and describe what JT has already been tared and feathered for. In a very generic sense the type A would be a very traditional old-time fundamentalist. Type C would be a very conservative and Biblical historic evangelical (Johnny Mac, Philip Ryken, John Piper, etc...). Type B would be those who fall somewhere in between these first two--I don't think that the defining lines are perfect, but I think you can get the idea.

I would tend to think that I am a "B" but I am sure I hold positions some would classify as "A" and "C".

PT

Radish said...

Thanks - I kind of get the idea.
Ummm... as long as I am showing my ignerance - what does JT stand for?

PT Barnum said...

Joel Tetreau who is the architect of the A-B-C model.

BTW, I should have put his name in before referring to him by his initials--that would make me the ignorant one for sure! Here are the three parts if you missed them over at Sharper Iron.

http://www.sharperiron.org/2006/11/10/three-lines-in-the-sand-part-1/

http://www.sharperiron.org/2006/11/13/three-lines-in-the-sand-part-2/

http://www.sharperiron.org/2006/11/15/three-lines-in-the-sand-part-3/

PT Barnum

Anonymous said...

Gentlemen,
I happened across your blog a couple of weeks ago and have been reading through with great interest and an eerie sense of deja vu. The recounting of my Bible College experience would have a similar ring to it as several of the faculty (including the Dean of Students) were HAC grads; KJV only was preached from the pulpit, numbers were heavily stressed, Calvinism was decried as the ultimate heresy, the Preacher was was the final authority on all matters of faith and practice - the list goes on. I was only there for a year, but it was a very interesting year. In the end I was given the choice to leave quietly of my own volition, or be formally asked to leave as I had an "unteachable attitude". I believe this was because I questioned things - not to be rude or obnoxious, but in an honest effort to understand what I was being taught. Through God's grace I was born into a Christian family, saved at a young age, and raised in a Baptist church where I am still a member. We have been encouraged to "search the Scriptures to see if these things are so", and what I learned didn't match up with some of what I was hearing.
Incidentally, the gentleman who was the pastor of my church when I was growing up was a graduate of PBBC, several of my friends have served on the faculty there, and I have been to the visit college myself - very little of what I have seen firsthand or heard from others would indicate it was anything other than a place with a sincere desire to train people to serve the Lord.
My two cents - for what it's worth.

PT Barnum said...

excellent thoughts my anonymous friend! We appreciate your contribution to this blog--I am thankful that you have found us. I truly believe that as time goes on these types of ministries will be more and more erroneous in their theology. You may have noticed the statement on our sidebar:

"The errors of Hylesology will only be surpassed by the theological errors of the next generation of his most devoted disciples."

I think this applies to anyone in the IFBX orbit and not just those connected to Jack Hyles.

Come back and see us again under the big top!

PT Barnum

Anonymous said...

Again the bitterness comes out loud and clear. I wonder which of you two Einsteins found that quote anyways...sounds like something from Victor Nischik or Glover. I am not the same anonymous poster whose comments were deleted by the web guru. I can only imagine that what was said must have been awful.

My biggest problem with most of what is said here is that it is completily biased. Two brothers get sideways over something or someone and so they start a crusade to topple the place that gave them their wives and their upbringing. I suppose it is too much to ask for a personal confrontation with Pastor Schaap or any of the others in leadership at First Baptist. It is so much more fun to just blast everyting and everyone associated with Hammond. It almost seems like this place is your little way of rebeling and showing that you can "think" for yourself instead of sticking with the old paths.

One of the most troubling things I have noticed recently is the attack on the KJV...you may not even realize it but every scripture verse quoted and even the ESV link show a certain disrespect for the word of God. You guys know that there is nothing wrong with the KJV and you still take every opportunity to try and undermine it.

anonymous

Sarah said...

I have been reading this blog for several weeks now, and I decided finally to post something on here. I don't understand why anonymous begins talking about the bitterness of these other people, when you can see the sarcasm and bitterness easily as you read his post. I believe that if FBCH and HAC are teaching unBiblical things, Christians need to know about it. It is far more important to me to know what God says about something than about what man says because man is sinful and he will do wrong things...as is evidenced by Pastor's Schaap's exaggerations and falsehoods...I've always learned (in my ex-church, mind you, a dedicated IFBx church) that exaggerations were just as bad as lying, but that's off the subject. I am a student at Maranatha currently, and I have Dr. Price in two of my Bible classes, and the way he was potrayed by Schaap did not line up with the man I know. I have no bitterness against my former IFBx church; we left the church not because of the doctrines but because of inappropiate and illegal activities of the pastor's son, which his father did not condemn. I have slowly realized that my long-held beliefs did not line up with God's Word, even though I was hard-headed and thought I was being taught hersey for the longest time. :) Now, I am experiencing a wonderful relationship with my Creator along with many people I know here at Maranatha, and if that doesn't prove anything, I don't know what does.

Ryan DeBarr said...

I knew the late Joseph Rammel from my time at PCC. I had a substantial amount of contact with him. He was very much beloved and respected by the students at Pensacola- he was perhaps the MOST loved member of the administration.

In all my dealings with him, he ws never anything less than a Christian gentleman. I personally can't see him acting like that. There were at least two men on Sharper Iron that had some personal knowlege of the situation and said that it did not go down like Schaap said it did. Schaaps' story doesn't even ring true- it's too preposterous and is not consistent.

He should be ashamed.

PT Barnum said...

Sarah,

Great to have you stop by for a visit. I am sorry to hear about the way sin was treated at your former church--it is encouraging to see your spirit and attitude have not been claimed as a casualty. God bless you as you seek His guidance and training up in Wisconsin.

Ryan,

I agree that Pastor Schaap should be ashamed--recently his views on communion have left little hope that ANYTHING would shame him. Thank you for your testimony in regards to Joseph Rammel.

PT Barnum

Joshua R said...

anonymous,

Thank you kindly for visiting and taking the time to comment on our latest post. Since you posted anonymously, I will assume that you don't know us personally, and thus it is unfortunate that you insist on labeling us as "bitter." We do understand that it is the easiest way to attempt to refute any constructive criticism made regarding Hammond. {sigh} Do you merely designate all who strongly disagree with Pastor Schaap as "bitter?"

Regarding your assertion that we are biased due to getting "sideways" over something, you couldn't be further from the truth. There certainly was no isolated event that exposed to us the problems with FBCH, and we have emphatically stated before that we love scores of people there and wish the best for them in the Lord. To be quite frank with you, your whole assessment of us comes across like a devout Catholic nun scolding two former altar boys for abandoning "the church." I am sorry that you misunderstand our motives.

A few other items: 1. I doubt that you know anything of our attempted correspondence with FBC leadership---let's not go there 2. please leave Victor and Voyle out of this---that is the oldest play in the book ;] 3. please define for us these "old paths" that we apparently have forsaken 4. please provide adequate Scriptural basis for your assertion that we have shown disrespect for the Word of God by way of the ESV link.

Please visit us again and/or feel free to email us at your leisure.

Scott said...

This is my fist reply to a blog.
I went from a more liberal independent baptist church to an independent fundamental baptist church that yes has connection to HAC and FBC and I will never go back Lord willing. I don't see the back stabbing, un-seperated and general laziness now that I did then and my walk with the Lord is stronger than ever. You people that run this blog remind me of the folks at the more liberal church that have so much energy from not working for the Lord that they end up tearing up other Christians (the bible calls it "he that soweth discord among brethren" Pro. 6:19). If you people put as much energy into spreading the Gospel as you do tearing up Bro. Schaap and Bro. Hyles, I bet thousands would be saved from Hell.
You see, you are the loud minority. You are the few that got mad at the Preacher and now are wasting time by not keeping people out of Hell but rather trying to tear a man from a pulpit, let God handle that. Get busy doing something for God, but then again, I guess that would not make for tantalizing reading on a blog would it?

Joshua R said...

Scott,

Thanks for commenting. We genuinely do appreciate other opinions and constructive criticisms.
We certainly are aware that many who visit this blog will not agree with all or any of the content herein. Evidently, you are one of those folks. ;) As for the church experience that you described, thanks for sharing it but your sole experience doesn't necessarily dictate what is true and what is not. Can you elaborate as to how the first church you attended was "liberal"? I am just curious because different people use and define that word differently. I am sure that many in IFBx would think us liberal at B&C...!

I look forward to your response and offer my condolences on the passing of Grand Rapids native and former president Gerald R. Ford.

PT Barnum said...

Scott,

Great to see you here with the rest of us circusers! I agree with Josh in extending a hearty welcome. I too enjoy differing opinions especially those given with the right spirit. We are always looking for ways to improve our show here at Bread and Circuses and will definitely take your recommendations into consideration.

You mention about us being like your previous "liberal" church--we are fundamental in our doctrine and don't see the connection. As Josh mentioned it would probably be helpful to see what your definition of "liberal" is--everyone has their own ideas and definitions for this word, so please enlighten us.

As far as "sowing discord among brethren" goes, I see very little of that kind of thing since leaving the world of IFBxdom. I grew up at FBC in Hammond and there was an endless theme of tearing down good preachers from the pulpit. Even now as we have documented here at B&C Jack Schaap tears down his former school, PBBC, by exaggerations and IMHO outright lies. We have not lied about our former church on this blog--we are giving our observations from a combined 40+ year tour of duty.

As far as spending time here versus "keeping people out of hell" I spend very little time here--I have received emails asking us to post more often. Between family, ministry, work, and my "honey do" lists I don't have much time to give to this blog. I thank God there are countless people all over the globe serving the LORD and not telling everyone about it. I praise the LORD that the loud minority that loves to toot their own horn is nothing but a blip in my rear view mirror. I don't know you and I have no idea what you are "doing for God" or if you are "busy keeping people out of hell". I trust that you are serving Him by bringing glory to the LORD in everything you do.

My advice to you would be that you be more specific in your complaints. Refute anything we have posted on this blog--find one untruth or lie and I will retract it. You are like I used to be--an angry defender who thinks he is the only one "doing something for God". Scott, we are serving God but if you are looking for us to post numbers or pat ourselves on our backs with personal stories--you are at the wrong circus.

Come back and be more specific when you have a free moment--you probably don't have very many of these with all the thousands you are saving from hell. God bless.

PT Barnum
Circuser Extraordinaire

Anonymous said...

Judge not that ye be not judged.

isabella said...

if all of you spent half the time and energy that you have waisted to cause slander to my pastor on your own church then you might have as great as a church as i have!

PT Barnum said...

I already do have a great church. You must be pretty upset with how your "preacher" slanders other good Christian folk--no doubt you have voiced your concerns to him regarding this matter. If you have not been upset by Jack Schaap's slander then shame on you for being a respecter of persons.

BTW, I spend very little time on the blog currently--the only way I knew you left a comment was because I get email notification of all new comments.

Matthew

Cynthia said...

This is my first time ever visiting one of these sites, as I was looking up real estate sites, and happened upon it.
I attended HAC from 1981-1984, because I believed that this is where God directed me. I believe that the scripture teaches that if we are seeking the Lord, He will direct our paths. As I grew as a Christian, and read my Bible for myself, I began to realize that this type of Christianity was lacking. It took me 15 years to come to this realization. Kind of like a journey to the truth... I have gone through the angry stage, the bitter stage, the disillusionment, and then, I remembered how good God was!! It is so wonderful to know that God led me all along, and that these experences have become a part of who I am. He wants all of us to be unique, because He has a unique plan for each one of us. I needed the whole "fundie" experience (that's what I call it) to bring me to where I am now. We have to remember not to be too tough on our brothers and sisters still "in it", because we were there one time ourselves. We need to pray for one another, rather than "bash" one another. Bashing is not of God.
I am not saying that we should not expose heresy. There is definitely a place for that. The Bible says to beware of false teachers. But, we should be careful not to make this our focus, because it is not good for our spirit.
We need to pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ, and treat them with mercy and love. We have become a people where issues are more important than the people. God forgive us!
What are we presenting to the world around us? Fighting, backbiting, maligning one another... what makes us different?Where is the light in the darkness?
Do the lost see Jesus Christ in us? In me? These are the questions I have come to ask myself. How well am I running my race? Do my family,friends,neighbors know that I love God?
Life is too short to spend it fighting. I can honestly say that God has brought me to the point where I don't care what Jack Schaap says. Who cares what Jack Hyles did or said... he's dead. Let the poor guy rest in peace. He has gone on to his reward. I sincerely hope that he heard "well done, my good and faithful servant". Isn't that what we all hope to hear? I can't run Jack Schaap's race, I can only run mine. I am busy enough with that! We have to take care not to become self-appointed Baptist police, deciding how everyone should be running their race. We all act like we are shocked when a member of humanity errors. Would I like God to broadcast my errors for the whole world to see? Thank God for His unending mercy towards all of us!
Fill in the blank with a prominent preacher or leader, and they all make mistakes because they are sinners. They are flesh. Surprised?The devil wants us to focus on them, so that we don't focus on our own sin, and on our own relationship to God.
I'm sure that none of us want to be critical, judgmental Christians. This is not the desire of any of our hearts. We all want to please the Lord with our lives. So, thus said, let's decide to make a real difference among our brethren, and show them mercy. After all, the Bible does say to "exhort one another in love" and we are to "provoke one another to love".
We have all met a Christian who drew us to the Lord like a magnet. What was different about them? The Christianity they had was real. They were becoming more like Christ, and I want to be that Christian. I know you all do too! So instead of investigating what Jack Schaap said or didn't say, let's spend time investigating what The Master had to say, so maybe, by the grace of God, a little bit of Christ-likeness may be seen in us!

PT Barnum said...

Cynthia,

Thank you for your feedback--I certainly agree with most of what you had to say. We have had some positive experiences at FBCH and some negative ones and we have written about both.

Our main desire is that those who stumble upon our blog would answer the LORD's call upon their life. This is why the first links on our sidebar have to deal with the most important issue of life--where we will spend eternity.

This blog is just a place where my brother and I like to share our thoughts (not as often as we would like). When Jack Schaap tells lies about historic fundamentalists I refuse to remain silent.

Again thank you for your comments--I will certainly heed much of your advice and prayerfully consider our responses to the errors in Hammond.

To the praise of His glory,

PT Barnum

Anonymous said...

You guys are so pathetic to sit around and talk trash like that! You call yourself christians i would never believe it by this web site!!! Grow up and leave my preacher alone! I wonder wha God is thinking right now about what you have done!!! May God bless you and give you what you deserve!!

Much Love,
Your Sister in Christ

NotReturnedVoid said...

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/schaap/general.htm

Has a whole piece showing more of Schaap's heresy. What I read here shows just how much of a kook he is. I hope more IFBs start warning others about Schaap's outrageous teachings!

Anonymous said...

I am ashamed I found this page, For if I was young in the Lord this page would be a block in my path. Ive been called names, Ive been lied about, Things where stolen from me, Ive felt the blood of the toungue, I carry scares, Im hated by the ones is seems I love the most. God doesnt need my bow and arrow. I find if I stand I must stand still.. May God help us all with a larger vision. under His Wings.

PT Barnum said...

I am wondering why this would be a "block in your path"? We observed a pastor with a large audience and following besmirching a decent college and those who ran it. You ought to be praising the LORD that not everyone is willing to be silent. Just because "preacher" says it doesn't mean it is so--you might want to check what they say versus what the Bible says. It is also helpful to check their stories since many in the IFBx realm love to fudge the truth in order to build their image to the masses. I wish I would have learned that lesson years before I did!

Your welcome,

Matthew

Anonymous said...

I was looking for news on the sale of Pillsbury and found this article. I'm glad I did, because I never would have heard such an amazing testimony. It took me a while to find the audio, but I'm sure glad I did. My dad was attending Pillsbury until 1982. I checked a few details with him and a lot of things checked out. He said the whole Amen thing happened and got a bit out of hand. My dad liked Dr. Rammel and that seemed like the kind of pressure he faced from the board.
Let's face it, if the church is only doing things that the local Kiwanis club "could" do, they are already part of the "end times" falling away, because they "have a form of godliness but DENY IT"S POWER". Let get back to the real fundamentals and start healing the sick, raising the dead, and reaching the lost (Mark 16:15-18). Let's stop acting like a bunch of librals reinterpreting the power of God away from our generation, smugly attributing our human effort to his power. And the most important fundamental is love (1 Cor. 13). Let's stop tearing apart men like Schaap, to justify our own insecurities, and show honor to him. Receive a righteous man and you will receive a righteous man's reward (Mt 10). Have some maturity and eat the meat but spit out the bones. I want to stand on the shoulders of men like him and go even further. Let's stop being tools of the devil to tear men of God down and instead come to their side and do what the church was born to do: Storm the gates of hell and let Heaven invade earth.

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Anonymous said...

I don't have an account here so my handle doesnt show. I think that if you had the same standards that you might not attack a great man of God. I see you have compromised on your Bible and use the perversions instead of the infallable inerrent Word of God KJV. I will not try to put words in Bro. Schaaps mouth because I do not know what he said but you need to worry about yourself. Matthew talks about taking the beam out of your own eye before you try to take the mote (splinter) out of your brothers eye. Think before you criticize God's Man and remember what happened in 2 Kings with Elisha!

Anonymous said...

For the person praising Schaap... stop right there! You need to stop praising this man. Here is proof - Page 42, paragraph 3:
Schaap from his own mouth - The book Marriage: The Divine Intimacy by Dr. Schaap, demonstrates the impunity in which FBC and Hyles-Anderson College operate without accountability for its teachings. Here is only one of many:
"When a person takes the bread during the Lord’s Supper, he is not actually eating Christ’s body. That person is saying, this element represents something. The person who deeply loves Christ understands that when he receives Christ as Saviour, it is a spiritual intercourse. A person receives the body of Christ. A Christian is the female gender in the spiritual realm, and God is the male gender of the spiritual realm. When a person receives Christ as Saviour, he is receiving Christ as a lover."

Anonymous said...

I am probably one of the strongest synics of the school and could offer many negative comments - but I have to defend the school in this case. The Schapp story was so full of self promotion, "one good student in a bad place", that I actually get the feel that this jerk was a real bonehead, was called on the carpet for it, and then used his influence to slam the school. Anyway, the school is gone and he should be happy.

Doug said...

Wow, my name is Doug, I went to both PBBC starting mid 1970's and HAC later. I was there when Bro. Schaap was at PBBC the year this took place, although I was not in the room when it all happened, and I was not tight with him as a close friend. Therefore I will not speak to what took place, but I will say that instead of openly fighting for what I believed in while I was at both schools, and yes I was at PBBC much longer than at HAC. I gleaned something for my life and personal ministry as a layman from both places. I am disappointed in all of the back and forth railing as I am convinced that some who are not in Christ will read some of these and go away convinced that Christ is not the answer. Yet He is and where is the looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. What a shame for all this bickering and backbiting and railing. God knows who is to be judged for sin and wrong doings and He has promised that He will care for that at the judgements for both reedeemed and non-reedeemed. Everyone seems to want to express why they are so right about a theological issue. When it becomes verbal war, it is child like. We are to be as the Bereans and search the Scriptures and to live by our convictions and win the live Godly and Holy and sow the seed and disciple those who say they are in Christ. We are to remember our Creator in evil days, that would be today. I am embarrased to much of what I read, but even if you are right. Look which school God has allowed to flurish and which is finished never to continue "the work at hand" again perhaps. Foolish Christians shut your mouths all of you and get busy in the work you have been called to do, and who or what ever criticism someone has for me and my post will not be answered because I'm not on either side and am choosing the battles I fight. This is not one of them.